Commission Members in Attendance:
Brit Lawlor – Chairman
Jim Dowd – Violations
Jeff Nagel – Membership & Marketing
Joe Dabrowski – Tournament/Rules
Michael Cioffi – Men’s Locker Room/Food and Beverage
Wendy Foster – Commission Member
Others in Attendance:
Jim Von Eschen – Director of Golf
Chris Johnson – Superintendent
John Mackie – Assistant Golf Pro
John Daley – Member
Motion to start meeting by Joe Dabrowski, Jeff Nagel 2nds it; accepted by Brit Lawlor. Meeting officially starts at 6:06PM.
Brit would like to welcome Wendy Foster to the Bellport Golf Club Golf Commission.
Membership & Marketing Report, presented by Jeff Nagel
Currently, membership sits at 386 members; this number is up 4 total members from our meeting in June. With that being said, what is our membership cap? This is something we’ve been talking about for the last year but now we have to get serious, being at 386 members. Brit Lawlor steps in and says that in talks with Mayor Ray Fell, it sounds like he would like 270 Full members. Brit asks Jimmy what he believes the number should be, to which he says we should probably be around 260 Full. Jim Dowd asks Jim Von Eschen what a typical membership is? Jimmy says that it is relatively around 230 – 240 members. Jimmy states that it shouldn’t necessarily be based on how many members, but on how much money the village wants to bring in. Changing subjects, Brit mentions that maybe the village should consider going fully private due to some of the problems that the golf staff currently deals with. In just the last week, there were multiple instances where Residents came down without their own Village ID Card (tried using their Mother’s), another group of Residents had two golf bags (for three players) and started using profanities when John Mackie told the group that each individual needed a bag and clubs. Jimmy states that there are other Village owned courses that have restrictions or are fully private. Jimmy continues with Lawrence Country Club is an example where 90% of their members are residents and pay $6,000 compared to the 10% of non-residents who pay $8,500. Port Jefferson Country Club (a club consisting of 95% residents, 5% non-residents) as well as the Village Club at Sands Point are two examples of clubs who are completely private. Jim states that if we were to become a fully private club in the future, he would like to see the Resident membership rate drop from where it currently is. Although the residents wouldn’t be able to pay a daily greens fee, they would be receiving membership at an even lower price than it is currently at. It is noted that Jim wants to encourage play; he wants people to get involved with the game of golf. Unfortunately, there are times when the golf course is not the place to do so. With the lack of facilities, the golf course is the only option.
In regards to talking about membership cap, Jimmy states that the last thing that we want to do, is to go back to 5+ hours for a round of golf. As a golf course, Jimmy states that you want your membership fees to cover your expenses for the year. We currently bring in $1.31 million in membership fees, which should cover our cost. This means that anything else that gets brought in, will be extra. Currently, Jimmy estimates, that we bring in $200k in cart fees, $160k in greens fees and roughly $140k in outings. Brit states that if we were to bring in more money through membership, perhaps we could move into a different tier with Parkland (meaning the budget for maintenance would be larger, making it easier to maintain course conditions).
Tournaments/Rules Report, presented by Joe Dabrowski
In this years President’s Cup, we were able to fill seven different flights. Flight A was won by Kevin Lauretti with 35 points. Flight B was won by Ken Steiger with 39 points. Jim Cottone won the C Flight with 38 points. Tom J Murray won the D Flight with 34 points. 36 points from Neal Smith was enough to win the E Flight. Kevin Sullivan scored 34 points, which won the F Flight. Beverly Ray scored the most points in the entire field with 40, winning the Ladies Flight.
The Bishop Cup brought us 3 different formats (Scramble, Best Ball and Alternate Shot) and a great tournament. The Woods Flight was won by the team of Joe Dabrowski and Bill Hope (132). Donna Migdol and Sally Hayes (137) won the Sorenstam Flight. Father/Son duo of Mike and Val Winter (140) won the Nicklaus Flight. The Hogan Flight was won Jerry Andritz and Don Maxwell (136). Joe LaScala and Joe Simonetti (135) took home the weekends Trevino Flight. The tournament;s Watson Flight was won with a score of 135 by George Wasielke and Bob Quarte. Kevin Sullivan and Brian Strauss (135) were able to win the Snead Flight. Finally, the Jones Flight was won by the Mucci brothers. Al and Mike Mucci won with a score of 139. With a score of 132, Vito Aniello and Neal Smith won the Palmer Flight.
In the month of June, we held our annual Men’s Senior Club Championship. The Championship consisted of ten, eight person flights, based off handicap index. Once the flights were determined, there were no strokes involved in the matches. Players played match play throughout the event. The winners for each flight were as follows:
Championship Flight: Mike Aronsen A Flight: Frank Carparelli
B Flight: Brian Strauss C Flight: Wayne Black
D Flight: Al Mucci E Flight: Wayne Atkins
F Flight: Bob Boettcher G Flight: Mike Sialiano
H Flight: Joe Zaffuto I Flight: Doug Keller
June’s 9 & Dine went well, consisting of 50 players for the event. The overall winner was John Reilly, a new member, and his guests. As for the July 9 & Dine, we had to cancel the tournament due to lack of participation. Jimmy and Joe state that there may have been some overkill with the 9 & Dines, where people were thinking “I’ll play in the next one.” Joe states that maybe next year we switch to two 9 & Dines or changing one theme to a “Family Night”. Jim Von Eschen states that getting the children to the golf course at a young age will hopefully get them into the game.
Joe states that looking forward, the Men’s Member/Guest is being held on Friday, August 3rd with the Ladies Invitational to be held the following Tuesday, August 7th. Jimmy states that the Men’s Member/Guest was sold out in 2 weeks, with a 5 team waitlist, and the Ladies currently have 42 players signed up. The MGA Team Net Championship will be held prior to September, the Pro Shop is just waiting for confirmation as to when the event has to be played by. As always, the Member/Member tournament will be held on Labor Day weekend; Saturday, Sunday and Monday.
Violations Report, presented by Jim Dowd
Jim states that as violations go, he has nothing. With this being said, he wants it to be noted that there is a problem with traps being raked and ball marks on the greens not being fixed. Jim Von Eschen states that these are both “golf problems”. He continues by saying that John Mackie’s uncle, who sits on the board at Southward Ho, says they have the same problem at their course. He states that we make announcements prior to the Men’s Club, send emails out when needed and it is mentioned throughout the membership packet in the beginning of the season. John Daley states that he plays weekly after the Men’s Club and there are ball marks galore, with sand traps un-raked throughout the golf course. We have to do better as members, in controlling the situation. If we all take care of the group that we’re playing in, we will leave the course in better shape than we found it.
Jim Dowd continues, by saying there is an issue with the entrance on the cart path to the 7th green. Currently there’s a big depression/hole exactly in the path. Jim asks Chris Johnson if we could add some sand/dirt to the area, to level it out. Additionally, the mirror located by the 9th tee box. It is currently, overgrown with beach grass, leaving the mirror useless. Chris says that he will address both issues.
Report, presented by Wendy Foster
First off, Wendy would like to announce that she is happy to be apart of the commission. She has a few things that she wants to address with the overall theme being that we make sure that as a club, our assessment for practices, policies and behavior are up to par with where they should be. To start, Wendy addresses the lack of sand located around the Red/White tee boxes, stating that the sandbox is only located near the back tees. To this, Chris Johnson replies that there is no real rhyme or reason to this strategy. His guys simply move them as they are mowing the surrounding areas; he also states that they have placed them near some of the front tee boxes in the past, but they went un-touched. Joe Dabrowski also clarifies that the sand isn’t located near the Black Tees either, but he simply goes up to the sandbox and fills his own sand bottle to use or simply doesn’t fill the divot and Chris’ crew maintains the teeing areas. Chris states that he will place sand near the Red/White teeing grounds in the next few weeks and we will see if it in fact, gets used. Brit asks Wendy to make a list of where she thinks there should be more sand and let Chris know (as Tara did with the benches in previous years). Wendy continues by bringing up the way in which the tournaments at the club are flighted. Jimmy says that for each tournament, the flyer states that flights will be determined by participation; meaning that if there are enough Ladies, they will have their own flight. In the past, there have been Ladies who don’t want to compete against the Men because they feel intimidated. Wendy feels that we shouldn’t be telling Ladies they can not compete in an event because they make an odd number for the Women’s Flight (in regards to a 2017 incident in which a female member inquired about playing in a tournament after the deadline and flights, pairings have been made already. Originally this member said she wouldn’t play in the event due to a vacation in which she was going on). Wendy states that going forward we should make sure that our practices (in regards to tournaments) doesn’t exclude, block or eliminate any kind of members from participating, based on gender. Jimmy states that he 100% agrees with Wendy. He then asks the question if we should end “Ladies Day” and “Men’s Day” (referring to the Ladies & Men’s Club which plays on Tuesday and Wednesday, respectively). She responds by saying that she is talking about tournaments in this situation, to which Jimmy and John state that both the Ladies and Men’s Club are one day tournaments. When asked, Wendy says that this doesn’t include the Men’s & Ladies Club Championship as these are not handicapped event. Jimmy iterates that even in that event, handicaps are used to determine the flights. In summary, Wendy states that she would like us to review how we go about the tournaments and fix certain issues if need be, she also states that if we are going about things the right way, then great. Joe Dabrowski states that he and Jimmy have spoken a lot in regards to the tournaments, and Jimmy has done a lot of things to make sure the tournaments are appealing as possible to the entire membership. John Daley states that if you are going to have an event where the Ladies wish to compete against the Men, that they should play from the same set of tees and adjust the handicap accordingly. Jimmy states that doing so would lose female participation who we are trying to encourage to play in these events. Brit says that yes, there are probably some tournaments where we can have mixed pairings or teams based on format and structure and other tournaments where it is better suited to stay in seperate flights. For many years, Jimmy has allowed Ladies to compete against the Men if there was not enough participation for their own flight, regardless of the blowback from some male members. Jim Von Eschen asks Wendy what Knollwood Country Club does in regards to how their tournaments are set up. She states that she doesn’t know how their tournaments are run, but she can ask and find out. She did state that Knollwood recently changed their policy to “Golfing Member” rather than “Gender Member. ”
Speaking of tournaments, Wendy states that she wanted to talk about the Member/Guests (Men’s Member/Guest and Ladies Invitational), specifically the Ladies Invitational. Since both male and females are now working, part of the reason that the Men’s MG is sold out is due to the fact that it is on a Friday, compared to the Ladies Invitational being held on a Tuesday. For those who work during the week (both members and guests) it is much more difficult to get a day off on a Tuesday as compared to a Friday. The obstacle that we are encountering (from the club’s point of view) is that we can’t have it on a Friday because there is not enough participation to shut the course down for the day. Wendy states that this is a tournament which is not being treated the same way, when it comes to Male and Female. John Mackie states that including the outside group which is invited, there is currently 44 players signed up for the event. Mike Cioffi asks if the Men’s MG is held on a Friday yearly; Jimmy answers by saying that a few years back, the commission decided to host the event on a Saturday. Asking for some clarification, Wendy would like to know what is required to hold the event on a Friday (amount of players and pricing). Jimmy states that $560 per twosome and a minimum of 72 players. John states that based on who he deals with at Ladies Club, there has already been some negative feedback on this years Ladies Invitational price ($240 per twosome). Wendy states that the younger generation of members might be willing to pay more for the event; Jimmy thinks it is a great idea. Continuing, Wendy states that the outside group (LIGCA) used to have an outing here in which they were recently told they could not return. Jimmy clarifies that yes, they were told they could not hold their event here on a Monday because he filled that date with a 100+ person outing. The LIGCA had roughly 40 players that would go off with straight tee times, leaving the golf course open for regular play both prior to and after the field went out. At the end of the day, it was a business decision; and in the roughly 4 years that the LICGA came to BGC, there was not one player who joined. Wendy states that one of the reasons that she and other BGC members didn’t know it was the Member/Guest was because of the name (Ladies Invitational). Joe Dabrowski states that it is not Jimmy or the commission who picks the name for the event; those who run the event, chose the name. This is the third year that the event has been called the “Ladies Invitational”. Wendy says that she does not want to point fingers or criticizing in any way, but these are some things that she just noticed and wanted to bring up.
Wendy is unsure of who runs the Ladies & Men’s Club; Brit answers by saying Jimmy and John (the Pro Shop) run these events. Asking about rules as to who can play in the Men’s and Ladies Club, Jimmy responds by saying that if you are a member of Bellport Golf Club, or a village resident, you can play in either event. Wendy says that on the website (Bellportgolfclub.com) it currently states that Men’s Club is open to members, residents and guests (with a valid USGA handicap) and the Ladies Club is only open to members. Jimmy states that yes, both residents and guests can play in these weekday events; something that he fought for once the Pro Shop took over the Ladies Club. Wendy states that this is not common knowledge, as Sue Callahan had to ask Jimmy if she was allowed to play in the tournament earlier in the year. Currently there are two residents who play in the Ladies Club just about every week (Sue Callahan and Mary Lou Keating). Brit states that the website should be changed so that the wording is the same and asks John Mackie to take care of it. John states that the website wording was done prior to the Pro Shop taking over the weekly tournament and that he will take care of the wording so that it matches the Men’s Club wording in regard to who is allowed to play. Prior to the Pro Shop taking over the event, the Ladies Club was only open to those who also belonged to the “Bellport Women’s Golf Club”.
Men’s Locker Room/Food and Beverage Report, presented by Mike Cioffi
Mike states that I really don’t have much to report on. The Men’s Locker Room is basically brand new and as far as Peter’s goes, I haven’t heard anything from the membership about them. Chris Johnson adds that there we have to do something with the bathrooms out on the golf course. They are both filled with bugs when he enters them in the morning when they are left open or if the lights are left on. Neither the men’s or ladies room have a door that is strong enough to close on it’s own and its flat out disgusting. Mike suggests that the Village Code Enforcement goes in and checks to see that the doors are shut and the lights are off during their nightly sweeps of the village. Brit states that the Code Enforcement is sometimes unreliable, as they do not even have a direct number to contact. Mike follows up by saying that they would have to sign off on a sheet (possibly found on the door) to keep them honest throughout the year. Brit states that an easy solution to the problem would be to have the lights on a motion sensor where after x amount of time, the lights would turn off. To solve the door shutting, he suggests making sure that the strong spring hinge that shuts the door is shut. It is a simple solution to the problem and we’re done.
Director of Golf Report, presented by Jim Von Eschen
Brit asks Jimmy about voting on membership starting in September; Jimmy reiterated that we’ve been running a membership deal the last few years (pay 2019 membership and play the rest of 2018 for no additional cost) which has brought in an extraordinary amount of members. The people who have been bringing these new members in, are our members themselves. They’ve been sponsoring new members and through this we’ve brought in roughly 200 new faces in the last 3 years; most of which have been Full Members. Jeff states that we would need to know our membership caps, before voting on this. Joe and Brit follow up by saying that since we lose roughly 30 members per year, due to various reasons, we will not necessarily reach our “cap” by this September. In June we spoke about limiting the amount of new members which are brought in during the September membership drive. Jimmy states that 95% of the people who are joining for the first year, are joining as Full Members. John states that out of the new members that we’ve picked up during the 2018 season, there were 2 Weekday members. Brit states that he thinks that based on previous conversations, we should only accept 30 new members during this Fall membership drive. The commission unanimously votes in agreement with Brit. Brit will discuss this with Mayor Ray Fell in a future meeting. The commission also agrees that we keep the membership incentive the way it is. Jimmy then asks the commission, what it is that they want to charge for membership. After clarification of how much the new member must pay (they must pay in full to get the membership deal) Brit says that this is something he must talk with Ray about. Jimmy then says that he has been thinking and he came up with an idea that the Course Assessment (CA) fee that we charge in addition to membership, could always be subject to change. Jimmy and the commission explain that the CA goes to some of the tree work, the new tee boxes, new bunkers, plus other projects. Brit says that they can’t necessarily build it into the CA fee because membership dues goes into a different fund than the CA fee, stating that it is Ray’s decision rather than our decision.
Moving on, we are getting new golf carts in the upcoming months. We had a demo cart earlier in the year and based on the feedback that we received, we’re going forward with this Quiet Tec carts. The good thing is we will not begin lease payments until June 2019. The only thing we have to decide on is the color. There are basically three colors that we have to choose from. White is their base color and no additional cost. Green is the color of the demo that was unanimously liked and we feel as though it will blend in well with the golf course; the upcharge for that is $15 per cart. Lastly, there is a blue color option which we were thinking because of Bellport, but the upcharge for the blue is $115 a cart. Mike makes the motion to vote on the color, to which the commission unanimously votes to go with the green cart.
As we look forward to the Men’s Member/Guest, there is a slight problem; there is a possible chance of rain. We chose to go with Gus and Peter’s on the Green because he deals with the membership on a daily basis. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have enough seating to sit everybody at the same time in case the field has to be brought in due to rain. Joe Dabrowski went up and spoke with Gus and asked if he would be open to the idea of renting a tent so that everybody could be covered if need be; Gus quickly shut him down, stating that in previous years when he rented a tent, it went unused. After hearing this, Jimmy spoke with Rober (from the catering hall) and he was gracious enough to let us use the outside patio and even one of the small rooms if we do need the extra space.
We’ve been getting a lot of complaints about our Twilight membership the last few years. We capped it at 40 members and it brought in money when we needed it to but it is becoming a problem. Pace of play is crawling once these players get out on the golf course, bunkers are not raked all over the place and course conditions are beginning to suffer. Additionally, there are many members who come down after work and they are having to deal with this, when they are paying significantly more than the twilights. Jimmy states that he does not want to get rid of this membership option for the residents, but only the non-residents. We only have 13 residents who are taking advantage of the deal currently so I’m not sure there is going to be an influx of resident twilights. Wendy asks if the Twilights are majority high handicaps who are trying to learn the game but might be afraid to play when the course is crowded earlier in the day. John responds that some of these twilights are good players, with some competeing in amatuer events across Long Island. He additionally adds that from 3:30-4PM is one of the busier times at the golf course. Jimmy says that it is people who are just trying to figure out if it is cheaper for them to play here rather than playing the public sector. To this day, we have only had 1 Twilight member upgrade to a Full or Weekday member. Brit says that he will also bring this up when he meets with Ray. While we’re on the talk of membership again, we struggle to bring in Female members. They are playing the game but they are playing in Ladies leagues at West Sayville, Cherry Creek, Willow Creek, etc. They aren’t joining golf courses as individuals; if they are joining, it is husbands and wives that are joining together (ie. Bill & Colleen Savas, Beverly Ray & Bill Manning, Mike Rau & Arlene Buonomo, etc.) Brit even states that when on vacation, his wife wants to play golf every day, but the second they get back home (Village residents) she doesn’t touch a golf club. We’ve had play days with Island End in ast years but they live too far out east to think about joining Bellport. Jimmy has set something up with a group of Ladies who all live in the Bayport/Blue-Point area. They play in their own ladies league but play all the local public courses. Jimmy has gone back and forth with Claire, who runs this ladies league, and they secured a date to come and play the golf course in a Ladies ONLY 9 & Dine. The date for the event is Tuesday, August 28th with the event being a 5PM shotgun off of the front 9. He has spoke with Angela Matus already to try and see if some of our own ladies will be willing to play in the event (if they have room) to intermingle with this group. Wendy asks Jimmy what day this was being held on to which he confirms it is the 28th of August. Additionally she asks if we could issue a survey to the ladies to see why they aren’t joining clubs and why they are playing the public courses. Jimmy says yes, it is definitely something that can be done and he hopes to have membership packets to give out. We have to attack the local females and this is a great way to start.
Wendy suggests partnering with the Tennis courts and allowing golf members to play tennis and vie versa. Brit steps in and says that the commission has tried that in past years but they couldn’t get it past the village. Additionally, Jimmy and Joe bring up the fact that they wanted to give any family membership access to both the Ho Hum beach ferry as well as Mother’s Beach, both amenities that no other golf course can offer. This too was shot down from the village due to the fact that the ferry is crowded throughout the season as is. Jimmy states that we must attack families but we don’t have the amenities to do so. At the end of the day, we’ve brought in 160 new members in the last few years which is unheard of. We’ve done so well with these out of the box ideas in the last few years, that other courses are now copying our memberships. Currently the WMGA plays an event here in May, we do intercounty and Cross County events for the WMGA not to mention a Pinehurst event is 2019. With the WMGA, you must be a private club in order to hold these events. The thing is that these ladies already belong to clubs; we aren’t going to grab members from The Creek, Piping Rock, St. George’s or Southward Ho, etc. The member incentive was a way to have our members attract new members by bringing in their friends and at the end of the day, the ladies just aren’t bringing in members. Jimmy asks Wendy how many ladies she has brought into the club, to which she responds zero. The reason being that it is tough to get one of her friends to come out from the city and then go back in, if it is not on a weekend. Jimmy then asks how many of her female friends are actually playing golf, to which she responds only two. Jimmy states that females are just playing less in general. Wendy even states that it feels weird to be one of the only females on the golf course on weekend mornings; its a dynamic that unfortunately exists. She states that it doesn’t feel as though her peers are here, a problem that we’d like to fix. In conclusion, there aren’t a lot of females playing golf if they aren’t introduced to the game by a loved one or a parent/grandparent at a young age. Those who did play, have careers now; they aren’t free throughout the day with nothing to do. When they are free, they are spending time with their families.
In the Ladies club, people are staying away at times because they say the Ladies are just un-friendly. John states that on a weekly basis, we get pairing requests because certain ladies will only play if they are not paired with “X” or “Y”. Jimmy says that it is unfortunate because we are left with two people who possibly ruin it for the bunch of people, to which Brit says he too has heard of this. In year’s past, the Pro Shop was accused of ruining the Ladies Club due to the fact we were allowing non BWGC members to play. Continuing, Brit and Jimmy asks Wendy how many times she played in the Ladies Club in general but specifically when she was off last summer. She responds that she never has played in the Ladies Club since she’s been a member at BGC. Stating that quite frankly, she does not enjoy playing with that group of Ladies. Wendy continues by saying that the men’s membership doesn’t rely on the quality of Men’s Club just as female membership shouldn’t rely on the quality of Ladies Club; stating that Ladies Club shouldn’t be a doorway to female membership. Jimmy agrees with her statement but notes that we’ve had multiple members join after playing in the Men’s Club. Wendy would like the Ladies Club to be just as open and welcoming and run the same way as the Men’s Club is. Joe stated that from Jimmy’s standpoint, the Men’s and Ladies Club are run the exact same way. Wendy continues by questioning who exactly runs the Ladies Club, if it is John or Jimmy. Both of them state that they both run it. John is there on Tuesdays but both are present on Wednesday. Wendy asks what type of message that sends to the female members, that the Pro is not there on Ladies Club. Jimmy states that in June, July and August, he is there basically every Tuesday. Although he might not be present when checking the Ladies in and doing the scoring, he is around and talking to John throughout the day. Wendy states that maybe we should take a look at how both are being run from an administrative point of view and then worry about the social aspect.
Superintendent Report, presented by Chris Johnson
Everything is good right now. We’re in the grind of the Summer and the nasty weather. Hopefully, in the near future, we have the weather break and give the course a relief. Until then though, we’re in survival mode.
Comments from the Crowd
John Daley – Not much to add but I would like to see a pilot aeration and seed program for the areas around the greens. As I have stated in the past, you miss the green and there’s a good chance you find yourself in a hole or a patch without any grass. Chris states that they already planned to do this to some green surroundings in the Fall and Spring. Continuing, John mentions that the greens are perfect but the bunkers are a guessing game in regards to how much sand is in each one. To that point, Chris answers that this past Spring, his crew began to fill bunkers but due to the bad weather, they were only able to get holes 1 – 6 and hole 12 completed. It is something that he plans on picking back up in the Fall.
Meeting concludes at 8:10PM.